1 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:16,780 [Music] 2 00:00:23,859 --> 00:00:20,269 welcome to shattered reality with your 3 00:00:27,140 --> 00:00:23,869 hosts kate valentine and farrugia 4 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:27,150 prepare to head her paradigms shifted in 5 00:00:35,900 --> 00:00:31,890 the truth questioned and now shattered 6 00:00:40,490 --> 00:00:35,910 reality well hi there listeners ah here 7 00:00:43,310 --> 00:00:40,500 we are it's already july 26th 2016 and 8 00:00:47,990 --> 00:00:43,320 boy do we have an exciting show for you 9 00:00:51,470 --> 00:00:48,000 today there's somebody who has inspired 10 00:00:54,950 --> 00:00:51,480 me through since i was a teenager this 11 00:00:57,799 --> 00:00:54,960 gentleman dr. stanley crypt nur I've met 12 00:01:00,889 --> 00:00:57,809 him twice once at a presentation he did 13 00:01:04,100 --> 00:01:00,899 in Brooklyn nearly two years ago and 14 00:01:07,460 --> 00:01:04,110 then again in Boulder Colorado this 15 00:01:11,420 --> 00:01:07,470 summer at the Society for scientific 16 00:01:14,210 --> 00:01:11,430 exploration symposium now dr. Crippen ER 17 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:14,220 is the Alan Watts professor of 18 00:01:20,030 --> 00:01:16,890 psychology currently at saybrook 19 00:01:24,170 --> 00:01:20,040 University in oakland california and he 20 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:24,180 is coming to us via Skype from oakland 21 00:01:30,670 --> 00:01:26,490 and what i would i'd like to say a few 22 00:01:35,510 --> 00:01:30,680 words about him before i actually 23 00:01:37,730 --> 00:01:35,520 introduce him and say hello dr. Stanley 24 00:01:40,540 --> 00:01:37,740 krypter is perhaps the world's most 25 00:01:43,220 --> 00:01:40,550 famous and highly regarded 26 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:43,230 parapsychologist he is an expert on 27 00:01:51,140 --> 00:01:48,170 dreams dream telepathy shamanism 28 00:01:54,260 --> 00:01:51,150 hypnosis and healing states of 29 00:01:56,570 --> 00:01:54,270 consciousness but more than all this the 30 00:02:00,100 --> 00:01:56,580 one thing that stands out to me about 31 00:02:03,860 --> 00:02:00,110 dr. stan is the fact that he is a 32 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:03,870 collaborator when you look him up on 33 00:02:13,910 --> 00:02:09,209 amazon there are 421 results for books 34 00:02:16,820 --> 00:02:13,920 and many of them are collaborations he 35 00:02:19,340 --> 00:02:16,830 is very generous with his time and his 36 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:19,350 energy and he is a kind 37 00:02:26,510 --> 00:02:22,890 friendly man he was an important 38 00:02:29,830 --> 00:02:26,520 inspiration in my life early on because 39 00:02:34,010 --> 00:02:29,840 I read his book with co-author Montague 40 00:02:35,990 --> 00:02:34,020 almond called dream telepathy when I was 41 00:02:39,650 --> 00:02:36,000 still in high school when I was a 42 00:02:42,650 --> 00:02:39,660 teenager I wanted so much to participate 43 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:42,660 in the program but alas the program was 44 00:02:48,190 --> 00:02:45,690 already over at this time this program 45 00:02:54,110 --> 00:02:48,200 took place by the way at mamaya tease 46 00:02:57,140 --> 00:02:54,120 Hospital in Brooklyn New York and he he 47 00:02:59,480 --> 00:02:57,150 was really an inspiration to me later i 48 00:03:03,020 --> 00:02:59,490 read becoming psychic with with a 49 00:03:06,830 --> 00:03:03,030 different co-author a man whose name is 50 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:06,840 let me see here Stephen or Stefan kir 51 00:03:15,380 --> 00:03:10,290 loof and maybe I'll be corrected on that 52 00:03:17,780 --> 00:03:15,390 pronunciation in any case he later I 53 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:17,790 later read becoming psychic when I was 54 00:03:23,660 --> 00:03:20,250 already in working in the psychic field 55 00:03:26,930 --> 00:03:23,670 as a reader and an intuitive and it was 56 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:26,940 very inspirational and informational as 57 00:03:33,950 --> 00:03:29,970 well recently I've read healing states 58 00:03:36,710 --> 00:03:33,960 which was co-written with Alberto V old 59 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:36,720 oh and that is a shamanic book one of 60 00:03:45,940 --> 00:03:40,850 his several shamanic books so now 61 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:45,950 without any further ado let me introduce 62 00:03:54,590 --> 00:03:51,810 dr. Stanley Crippler hi hi froosh it's 63 00:03:57,260 --> 00:03:54,600 nice to talk to you it's wonderful to 64 00:04:00,410 --> 00:03:57,270 talk to you as well on in about one 65 00:04:03,710 --> 00:04:00,420 minute we will have Kate Valentine my 66 00:04:05,870 --> 00:04:03,720 co-host here with me but just to start 67 00:04:07,430 --> 00:04:05,880 off and I don't I want I want you to 68 00:04:09,290 --> 00:04:07,440 speak a lot but I do want to tell you 69 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:09,300 what I did last night before I went to 70 00:04:16,340 --> 00:04:11,970 bed actually when I was already in bed I 71 00:04:20,510 --> 00:04:16,350 decided to do what you know as a dream 72 00:04:23,450 --> 00:04:20,520 incubation I didn't do any big mystical 73 00:04:26,930 --> 00:04:23,460 ceremony all I did was to give myself 74 00:04:29,870 --> 00:04:26,940 the instruction the intention if you 75 00:04:33,230 --> 00:04:29,880 will that I would dream about any 76 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:33,240 anything I needed to know about today's 77 00:04:39,559 --> 00:04:35,610 interview to make it goes successfully 78 00:04:43,610 --> 00:04:39,569 and and then I went to bed and I went to 79 00:04:46,460 --> 00:04:43,620 sleep and all of a sudden I was feeling 80 00:04:48,980 --> 00:04:46,470 very happy I was somewhat awake and I 81 00:04:50,510 --> 00:04:48,990 was feeling very happy and I thought oh 82 00:04:54,529 --> 00:04:50,520 that's wonderful we had a wonderful 83 00:04:59,270 --> 00:04:54,539 interview with dr. Stan and we had such 84 00:05:01,249 --> 00:04:59,280 a great interview not only that but I it 85 00:05:03,980 --> 00:05:01,259 went really really well and I'm very 86 00:05:07,210 --> 00:05:03,990 very happy and then I rolled over in bed 87 00:05:10,909 --> 00:05:07,220 and it was dark out and I realized oh my 88 00:05:13,159 --> 00:05:10,919 goodness that was a dream so I didn't 89 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:13,169 really get any tips but I did have the 90 00:05:17,809 --> 00:05:15,330 dream that I intended to dream I I don't 91 00:05:21,170 --> 00:05:17,819 remember too many details but it was 92 00:05:23,270 --> 00:05:21,180 really very satisfactory experienced it 93 00:05:26,899 --> 00:05:23,280 to intend to dream and to have it happen 94 00:05:28,879 --> 00:05:26,909 I think that's quite remarkable and I 95 00:05:32,930 --> 00:05:28,889 think that what you can learn from that 96 00:05:34,969 --> 00:05:32,940 is that the setting the intention often 97 00:05:38,749 --> 00:05:34,979 works and maybe you can try it again I 98 00:05:42,140 --> 00:05:38,759 sure well so could you please start out 99 00:05:46,249 --> 00:05:42,150 by talking to us a little bit about your 100 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:46,259 work with the dream lab at mamaya tease 101 00:05:52,610 --> 00:05:49,050 Hospital in Brooklyn well yes I'll be 102 00:05:54,620 --> 00:05:52,620 happy to and in the first place I do 103 00:05:57,110 --> 00:05:54,630 have to make a correction i'm certainly 104 00:05:59,120 --> 00:05:57,120 not the most famous parapsychologists in 105 00:06:01,249 --> 00:05:59,130 the world I think there are a dozen 106 00:06:04,159 --> 00:06:01,259 people from different parts of the world 107 00:06:07,209 --> 00:06:04,169 who actually are much more famous than I 108 00:06:10,420 --> 00:06:07,219 am in terms of media in terms of 109 00:06:13,219 --> 00:06:10,430 documentaries in terms of publications 110 00:06:15,980 --> 00:06:13,229 when you say I'm the most highly 111 00:06:18,529 --> 00:06:15,990 regarded that might be a different thing 112 00:06:20,450 --> 00:06:18,539 for the simple reason that I get along 113 00:06:22,930 --> 00:06:20,460 much better with the critics at her a 114 00:06:25,309 --> 00:06:22,940 psychology than many of my colleagues do 115 00:06:29,570 --> 00:06:25,319 because I can see their point of view 116 00:06:33,589 --> 00:06:29,580 and I'm always very open to skepticism 117 00:06:35,779 --> 00:06:33,599 and thinking twice before one jumps to a 118 00:06:37,999 --> 00:06:35,789 conclusion and this is what 119 00:06:41,180 --> 00:06:38,009 characterized our work at maimonides 120 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:41,190 medical center when we did the dream 121 00:06:47,119 --> 00:06:44,490 laboratory work for 10 years an entire 122 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:47,129 decade and as you know that I 123 00:06:52,339 --> 00:06:49,770 the death of dr. Montague almond who was 124 00:06:56,779 --> 00:06:52,349 the director the committee nodal health 125 00:06:59,709 --> 00:06:56,789 center and it was his idea to take 126 00:07:02,629 --> 00:06:59,719 advantage of the new technology 127 00:07:05,389 --> 00:07:02,639 electrophotographic recording of eye 128 00:07:08,029 --> 00:07:05,399 movements etc while somebody was asleep 129 00:07:10,850 --> 00:07:08,039 and wake up people in the middle of the 130 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:10,860 night and find out if they were able to 131 00:07:16,369 --> 00:07:14,610 dream about a picture that somebody in a 132 00:07:18,439 --> 00:07:16,379 different part of the building or even 133 00:07:21,379 --> 00:07:18,449 though the different building was 134 00:07:25,879 --> 00:07:21,389 looking at so this is a type of work 135 00:07:29,449 --> 00:07:25,889 that we did for 10 years we've obtained 136 00:07:33,109 --> 00:07:29,459 a great deal of evidence we've rolled 137 00:07:36,259 --> 00:07:33,119 over 100 research articles one book and 138 00:07:40,549 --> 00:07:36,269 one monograph so all of that information 139 00:07:42,529 --> 00:07:40,559 is available and your readers can go to 140 00:07:45,199 --> 00:07:42,539 a library or what are the internet and 141 00:07:47,719 --> 00:07:45,209 look it up that's the good news the bad 142 00:07:51,290 --> 00:07:47,729 news is that we were not able to do this 143 00:07:53,839 --> 00:07:51,300 on demand it was unpredictable from one 144 00:07:56,779 --> 00:07:53,849 life to the next whether the green 145 00:07:59,079 --> 00:07:56,789 telepathy would actually work with other 146 00:08:01,879 --> 00:07:59,089 people try to replicate our work 147 00:08:05,809 --> 00:08:01,889 sometimes they did sometimes they do 148 00:08:08,839 --> 00:08:05,819 them so again we can't say that we have 149 00:08:11,989 --> 00:08:08,849 incontrovertible and irrefutable 150 00:08:14,379 --> 00:08:11,999 evidence that green telepathy works 151 00:08:17,719 --> 00:08:14,389 because it doesn't work on demand 152 00:08:20,179 --> 00:08:17,729 however I think that we did do some 153 00:08:23,319 --> 00:08:20,189 significant work of its found its way 154 00:08:26,379 --> 00:08:23,329 into the literature and to many many 155 00:08:29,059 --> 00:08:26,389 publications both scholarly and popular 156 00:08:32,300 --> 00:08:29,069 well it certainly was extremely 157 00:08:36,079 --> 00:08:32,310 inspirational to me when I read the book 158 00:08:39,019 --> 00:08:36,089 as a teenager and and you continue to 159 00:08:42,409 --> 00:08:39,029 inspire me and your your humbleness and 160 00:08:45,949 --> 00:08:42,419 saying that you're not the most of the 161 00:08:49,990 --> 00:08:45,959 most well-known parapsychologist is is 162 00:08:52,759 --> 00:08:50,000 nice but I do think that you are 163 00:08:55,370 --> 00:08:52,769 certainly one of the most published and 164 00:08:58,970 --> 00:08:55,380 the most highly regarded as you will 165 00:09:00,889 --> 00:08:58,980 agree with and in terms of suffering 166 00:09:03,410 --> 00:09:00,899 these critics gladly 167 00:09:06,470 --> 00:09:03,420 some of them I can and some of them not 168 00:09:09,859 --> 00:09:06,480 as much as you do so while I think that 169 00:09:13,549 --> 00:09:09,869 some of the critics are reasonable in 170 00:09:16,369 --> 00:09:13,559 their criticism others I find not so 171 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:16,379 much so but that's I don't really want 172 00:09:24,350 --> 00:09:20,730 to go too far into that area today but I 173 00:09:27,259 --> 00:09:24,360 rather have you give us an example of 174 00:09:30,169 --> 00:09:27,269 one of the dream studies that happened 175 00:09:32,900 --> 00:09:30,179 at maimonides well I'd be very happy to 176 00:09:34,460 --> 00:09:32,910 give you some examples and I think your 177 00:09:40,269 --> 00:09:34,470 listeners would find that a great 178 00:09:42,769 --> 00:09:40,279 interest our very first participant was 179 00:09:46,579 --> 00:09:42,779 Eileen Garrett who was the most famous 180 00:09:49,100 --> 00:09:46,589 medium of the 20th century and who 181 00:09:51,799 --> 00:09:49,110 founded the parapsychology foundation 182 00:09:54,949 --> 00:09:51,809 which is having its 65th anniversary 183 00:09:57,769 --> 00:09:54,959 this year and I will be helping to 184 00:10:00,139 --> 00:09:57,779 celebrate that anniversary by giving a 185 00:10:02,449 --> 00:10:00,149 talk in August at the Brooklyn Museum 186 00:10:04,879 --> 00:10:02,459 that you mentioned a little earlier so i 187 00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:04,889 will be returning to brooklyn and I you 188 00:10:10,220 --> 00:10:07,529 come back from time to time after all of 189 00:10:16,249 --> 00:10:10,230 these years great so anyway I lead was 190 00:10:19,910 --> 00:10:16,259 in her office and she was discussing the 191 00:10:23,299 --> 00:10:19,920 experiment with Matthew almond and so he 192 00:10:26,900 --> 00:10:23,309 told her that somebody would be 193 00:10:29,929 --> 00:10:26,910 selecting a picture and asked her to try 194 00:10:34,129 --> 00:10:29,939 to dream about it well sure enough she 195 00:10:36,799 --> 00:10:34,139 had a dream that night about the bin her 196 00:10:40,189 --> 00:10:36,809 chariot race from the famous movie which 197 00:10:42,319 --> 00:10:40,199 goes back up are several decades and she 198 00:10:45,919 --> 00:10:42,329 even described the team of white horses 199 00:10:51,049 --> 00:10:45,929 the team of black horses and the fact 200 00:10:53,090 --> 00:10:51,059 that she wanted to see the movie well 201 00:10:58,449 --> 00:10:53,100 the picture that somebody had selected 202 00:11:05,179 --> 00:11:01,579 what they call in show business a still 203 00:11:09,100 --> 00:11:05,189 a glossy print from that exact movie 204 00:11:12,199 --> 00:11:09,110 that's amazing protagonists racing the 205 00:11:14,750 --> 00:11:12,209 team of horses around the Roman 206 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:14,760 Colosseum so you can't 207 00:11:19,730 --> 00:11:17,610 get any more of a drug chip the left but 208 00:11:23,090 --> 00:11:19,740 there are many islanders in the world 209 00:11:25,490 --> 00:11:23,100 that's great is it possible that some of 210 00:11:28,010 --> 00:11:25,500 the other experimenters failed because 211 00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:28,020 the people that they had recruited were 212 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:31,680 not particularly psychic you never know 213 00:11:37,610 --> 00:11:34,410 who's going to be psychic or not we pick 214 00:11:43,850 --> 00:11:37,620 people who have a history of unusual 215 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:43,860 dreams and we had a person who actually 216 00:11:48,940 --> 00:11:46,650 was a professional psychic his name was 217 00:11:51,970 --> 00:11:48,950 Malcolm Besson he lived in England and 218 00:11:55,460 --> 00:11:51,980 he participated in quite a remarkable 219 00:11:57,890 --> 00:11:55,470 experiment because his assignment was to 220 00:12:01,010 --> 00:11:57,900 dream about a series of pictures it 221 00:12:02,900 --> 00:12:01,020 would be selected the following day so 222 00:12:05,930 --> 00:12:02,910 this is what we call a precognitive 223 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:05,940 experiment and to be absolutely sure 224 00:12:13,610 --> 00:12:11,130 that there was no possible criticism the 225 00:12:16,430 --> 00:12:13,620 people who ran the machinery and who 226 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:16,440 collected his dreams were from New York 227 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:18,450 University and they do not know that 228 00:12:24,350 --> 00:12:21,290 they were helping a precognitive 229 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:24,360 experiments going on they just thought 230 00:12:31,460 --> 00:12:27,930 this is a run-of-the-mill dream 231 00:12:33,290 --> 00:12:31,470 laboratory study and they duly woke him 232 00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:33,300 up whenever they saw the rapid eye 233 00:12:41,870 --> 00:12:36,720 movements on the EEG tape recorded his 234 00:12:46,190 --> 00:12:41,880 dreams and then they left well once mr. 235 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:46,200 besant woke up we had one of our 236 00:12:50,690 --> 00:12:48,450 laboratory assistants throw the dice and 237 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:50,700 the dice of course came up with a 238 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:53,610 certain number and this number directed 239 00:13:04,850 --> 00:12:57,930 us to a box and the box had the pictures 240 00:13:07,370 --> 00:13:04,860 in it and then we were able to see if 241 00:13:09,830 --> 00:13:07,380 the pictures correspond to the dreams of 242 00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:09,840 course this was done by people much 243 00:13:15,530 --> 00:13:12,510 later outside judges who tried to do the 244 00:13:18,860 --> 00:13:15,540 matches in one case mr. Bassett had 245 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:18,870 three dreams about birds one dream was 246 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:20,730 about birds in the laboratory what 247 00:13:26,180 --> 00:13:23,130 dreams was about birds and the forest 248 00:13:28,220 --> 00:13:26,190 laundry was about birds of the lake well 249 00:13:31,550 --> 00:13:28,230 the picture that was randomly some 250 00:13:35,270 --> 00:13:31,560 affected was a series of photographs of 251 00:13:37,100 --> 00:13:35,280 a dozen birds Wow again that's what you 252 00:13:40,130 --> 00:13:37,110 call a direct hit you don't get any 253 00:13:46,180 --> 00:13:40,140 closer than that mr. Bassett was able to 254 00:13:49,730 --> 00:13:46,190 do this accurately night after night and 255 00:13:53,270 --> 00:13:49,740 attain what we costs higher degrees of 256 00:13:55,190 --> 00:13:53,280 statistical significance well though the 257 00:13:58,490 --> 00:13:55,200 several thousand that this could be due 258 00:14:00,620 --> 00:13:58,500 to chance and who did this not only one 259 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:00,630 time he came back the next summer and in 260 00:14:08,810 --> 00:14:03,930 advice so this is all written emphasis 261 00:14:14,380 --> 00:14:08,820 in the literature and and we had yet to 262 00:14:16,510 --> 00:14:14,390 find a decent criticism of this work 263 00:14:20,090 --> 00:14:16,520 there have been some irrational 264 00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:20,100 criticisms by the way and I answered all 265 00:14:26,990 --> 00:14:23,760 of them in my chapter in the book called 266 00:14:29,510 --> 00:14:27,000 debating psychic experiences and I took 267 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:29,520 a list of all of the criticisms that 268 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:32,250 have been made both of all of them were 269 00:14:37,940 --> 00:14:34,650 off the wall the irrational order 270 00:14:42,020 --> 00:14:37,950 accurate bratton inaccurate except for 271 00:14:45,050 --> 00:14:42,030 one this cannot be readily repeated no 272 00:14:47,450 --> 00:14:45,060 it can't that's a valid criticism well 273 00:14:49,850 --> 00:14:47,460 the disdain wikipedia has published all 274 00:14:52,780 --> 00:14:49,860 those false accusations i cannot get 275 00:14:55,780 --> 00:14:52,790 Wikipedia to change it so you know these 276 00:15:00,410 --> 00:14:55,790 accusations and untruths slinger odd 277 00:15:03,170 --> 00:15:00,420 well Wikipedia while I have used it from 278 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:03,180 time to time to find out information I 279 00:15:09,340 --> 00:15:06,930 am I've decided to try not to use it any 280 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:09,350 longer or use it as little as possible 281 00:15:15,820 --> 00:15:12,810 because of their you know kind of 282 00:15:19,610 --> 00:15:15,830 mechanistic mindset that does not give 283 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:19,620 proper attribution to contributions in 284 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:23,330 consciousness by a number of people 285 00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:26,610 including our recent guest Russell Targ 286 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:29,910 and other folks who I have a great deal 287 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:32,130 of respect for I don't know how they 288 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:35,850 treat Dean Radin but I know that they 289 00:15:40,460 --> 00:15:38,010 don't treat Russell Targ very well that 290 00:15:42,290 --> 00:15:40,470 they may not treat you very well nor 291 00:15:45,860 --> 00:15:42,300 Rupert Sheldrake 292 00:15:47,870 --> 00:15:45,870 so I'm kind of down on Wikipedia at the 293 00:15:50,270 --> 00:15:47,880 moment and i am going to encourage 294 00:15:55,310 --> 00:15:50,280 people through this part podcast and 295 00:15:58,400 --> 00:15:55,320 elsewhere not to not to rely for the 296 00:16:02,630 --> 00:15:58,410 accuracy of wikipedia simply because 297 00:16:04,940 --> 00:16:02,640 their contributors are biased it's not 298 00:16:07,430 --> 00:16:04,950 only that but when somebody tries to 299 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:07,440 post a correction on wikipedia it's 300 00:16:15,020 --> 00:16:11,490 immediately taken down I will not let my 301 00:16:19,850 --> 00:16:15,030 students use Wikipedia in their research 302 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:19,860 papers and I think that Wikipedia does 303 00:16:24,260 --> 00:16:22,170 have a number of positive things I like 304 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:24,270 to look at wikipedia for movie reviews 305 00:16:29,210 --> 00:16:27,210 for example okay and there are other 306 00:16:31,610 --> 00:16:29,220 things that are very dependable upon 307 00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:31,620 Wikipedia but when it comes to 308 00:16:37,790 --> 00:16:34,320 consciousness alternative medicine mind 309 00:16:39,410 --> 00:16:37,800 brain interactions no you cannot depend 310 00:16:43,370 --> 00:16:39,420 upon them because they're terribly 311 00:16:46,460 --> 00:16:43,380 biased well I agree and even on things 312 00:16:50,630 --> 00:16:46,470 that are not necessarily involving 313 00:16:54,260 --> 00:16:50,640 psychic phenomena but rather things like 314 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:54,270 um a doctor feel-good do you remember 315 00:16:59,480 --> 00:16:56,490 him dr. max Jacobson do you remember 316 00:17:01,910 --> 00:16:59,490 m'kay absolutely and I said thanks for 317 00:17:04,700 --> 00:17:01,920 your patience and I got tied up in 318 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:04,710 traffic dr. grip nerds a pleasure to yes 319 00:17:12,170 --> 00:17:09,090 Kate's with us now page but that sir max 320 00:17:14,810 --> 00:17:12,180 you see old vitamin B shot so yeah you 321 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:14,820 stink reducing amphetamines and vitamin 322 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:16,890 B shots to Nixon and Kennedy and other 323 00:17:22,850 --> 00:17:20,010 people however I'm acquainted with a 324 00:17:25,580 --> 00:17:22,860 member of his family and she told me 325 00:17:28,370 --> 00:17:25,590 that he was born in Poland and that he 326 00:17:33,380 --> 00:17:28,380 at a very young age emigrated to Berlin 327 00:17:36,170 --> 00:17:33,390 and they have him listed as being born 328 00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:36,180 in Germany in a different year and I 329 00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:40,080 attempted to send this a suggestion that 330 00:17:46,580 --> 00:17:42,480 he was actually born right across the 331 00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:46,590 border for from from the front foot on 332 00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:48,720 one side as Germany on the other side is 333 00:17:54,380 --> 00:17:51,600 another name of the town and they 334 00:17:56,180 --> 00:17:54,390 refused to you know to even consider the 335 00:17:58,460 --> 00:17:56,190 fact that his own daughter 336 00:18:00,049 --> 00:17:58,470 happened to say that he was born in 337 00:18:02,749 --> 00:18:00,059 Poland then who would know if not his 338 00:18:05,450 --> 00:18:02,759 daughter mm-hmm well there you are 339 00:18:08,149 --> 00:18:05,460 that's another another example of their 340 00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:08,159 insistence that they know the truth and 341 00:18:15,499 --> 00:18:12,000 nobody else does um I I'm going to stick 342 00:18:18,499 --> 00:18:15,509 with dreams for the moment right now and 343 00:18:22,669 --> 00:18:18,509 I know that you have continued to work 344 00:18:29,810 --> 00:18:22,679 with dreams both as a healing modality 345 00:18:33,019 --> 00:18:29,820 and continuing on with kind of a study 346 00:18:35,289 --> 00:18:33,029 that you have done recently and you 347 00:18:41,330 --> 00:18:35,299 presented some of the findings from that 348 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:41,340 at the sse this summer so would you like 349 00:18:47,450 --> 00:18:44,129 to talk to that recent study a little 350 00:18:51,950 --> 00:18:47,460 bit with the woman who was part Native 351 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:51,960 American and her the person that she 352 00:18:57,950 --> 00:18:54,570 worked with who wasn't an was a native 353 00:19:02,480 --> 00:18:57,960 american and was really the true 354 00:19:04,730 --> 00:19:02,490 recipient of these dream messages i'll 355 00:19:07,399 --> 00:19:04,740 be very happy to talk about that and 356 00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:07,409 your listeners can actually go to my 357 00:19:14,029 --> 00:19:09,120 website and they can read the whole 358 00:19:17,019 --> 00:19:14,039 study and I website is www Stanley crypt 359 00:19:22,850 --> 00:19:17,029 merit which is wrong word we believe w.e 360 00:19:27,470 --> 00:19:22,860 bly dot-com so I was in correspondence 361 00:19:33,139 --> 00:19:27,480 for a year with a woman who works with 362 00:19:37,249 --> 00:19:33,149 the US Army to provide special events 363 00:19:39,769 --> 00:19:37,259 for servicemen and servicewomen and one 364 00:19:42,889 --> 00:19:39,779 and she's had actually has a history of 365 00:19:48,289 --> 00:19:42,899 unusual dreams but one night she had a 366 00:19:52,190 --> 00:19:48,299 dream about a soldier who claimed that 367 00:19:55,220 --> 00:19:52,200 he was killed in Iraq and her associate 368 00:19:59,659 --> 00:19:55,230 who is an assistant chaplain Native 369 00:20:02,629 --> 00:19:59,669 American was urine so she shared the 370 00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:02,639 dream with him and he knew the soldier 371 00:20:07,580 --> 00:20:04,740 because he had served in Iraq with that 372 00:20:09,529 --> 00:20:07,590 soldier at the names and the places 373 00:20:12,259 --> 00:20:09,539 matched exactly 374 00:20:17,090 --> 00:20:12,269 so that was the beginning of a whole 375 00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:17,100 series of dreams and before her friend 376 00:20:22,369 --> 00:20:18,960 the assistant shop and was transferred 377 00:20:25,369 --> 00:20:22,379 to another base there were 12 dreams 378 00:20:27,820 --> 00:20:25,379 that she sent me and each one of them 379 00:20:34,340 --> 00:20:27,830 gave very very specific information 380 00:20:38,869 --> 00:20:34,350 including names and places of servicemen 381 00:20:42,580 --> 00:20:38,879 who died in Afghanistan or Iraq one 382 00:20:46,729 --> 00:20:42,590 exception being a family member now 383 00:20:48,379 --> 00:20:46,739 again you have to take a look at 384 00:20:52,820 --> 00:20:48,389 something like this from a number of 385 00:20:54,109 --> 00:20:52,830 different points of view and some people 386 00:20:57,529 --> 00:20:54,119 will say well they were in collusion 387 00:21:00,379 --> 00:20:57,539 they were trying to fool you in the 388 00:21:02,089 --> 00:21:00,389 first place you have to ask what would 389 00:21:04,930 --> 00:21:02,099 be their motive this is a very 390 00:21:09,099 --> 00:21:04,940 complicated way to do a hoax and 391 00:21:11,659 --> 00:21:09,109 secondly if they were in collusion 392 00:21:15,489 --> 00:21:11,669 remember that they're in the US Army and 393 00:21:20,899 --> 00:21:15,499 any behavior like this is unethical and 394 00:21:23,049 --> 00:21:20,909 if it were brought to the courts or to 395 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:23,059 the military tribunals they could be 396 00:21:29,629 --> 00:21:27,090 dishonorably discharged or worse so as 397 00:21:32,149 --> 00:21:29,639 members of the US military the risk 398 00:21:35,269 --> 00:21:32,159 would have been too great to perpetuate 399 00:21:40,099 --> 00:21:35,279 a hoax like this another possibility 400 00:21:42,619 --> 00:21:40,109 would be that it was coincidence well 401 00:21:45,789 --> 00:21:42,629 when you have specific names and places 402 00:21:49,339 --> 00:21:45,799 it really stretches the boundaries of 403 00:21:50,989 --> 00:21:49,349 coincidence another one would be core 404 00:21:54,379 --> 00:21:50,999 memory they might have been talking 405 00:21:56,719 --> 00:21:54,389 about these servicepeople and that 406 00:21:59,719 --> 00:21:56,729 triggered the dream but there's a matter 407 00:22:01,969 --> 00:21:59,729 of fact they did not discuss his 408 00:22:04,879 --> 00:22:01,979 previous work in the Middle East they 409 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:04,889 had enough to discuss in terms of people 410 00:22:09,019 --> 00:22:06,690 on the base in the united states that 411 00:22:11,629 --> 00:22:09,029 they were working with and then the 412 00:22:15,799 --> 00:22:11,639 final possibility is that this was 413 00:22:18,889 --> 00:22:15,809 telepathy that she as the dreamer was 414 00:22:23,330 --> 00:22:18,899 unconsciously reading the mind of the 415 00:22:26,330 --> 00:22:23,340 assistant Chaplin had access to his 416 00:22:30,370 --> 00:22:26,340 memory bank and is able incorporates his 417 00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:30,380 memory of the soldiers into her dreams 418 00:22:35,870 --> 00:22:32,790 well this is possible as pretty 419 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:35,880 far-fetched but yes it's possible and I 420 00:22:43,850 --> 00:22:39,410 think that's the only viable alternative 421 00:22:46,420 --> 00:22:43,860 explanation now I think the more 422 00:22:50,150 --> 00:22:46,430 interesting question is why did these 423 00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:50,160 service people who died to the fairly 424 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:53,760 young age come to her in her dreams and 425 00:23:02,150 --> 00:22:56,970 they all said the same thing we want to 426 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:02,160 assure our loved ones and other people 427 00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:06,330 who lost young friends in the war that 428 00:23:15,250 --> 00:23:11,760 were on the other side we're happy we're 429 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:15,260 in beliefs were enjoying ourselves and 430 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:17,490 they shouldn't spend too much time 431 00:23:26,780 --> 00:23:21,330 reading for us so that was actually a 432 00:23:30,140 --> 00:23:26,790 very joyous message and again you can 433 00:23:31,790 --> 00:23:30,150 say well as part of the telepathy of 434 00:23:34,550 --> 00:23:31,800 course you want to give it a happy 435 00:23:38,150 --> 00:23:34,560 ending so even though this is not 436 00:23:40,370 --> 00:23:38,160 conclusive about life after death I 437 00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:40,380 think it's a pretty good piece of 438 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:44,640 evidence that one can use to see it's 439 00:23:50,060 --> 00:23:46,650 certainly a suggestive of life after 440 00:23:52,580 --> 00:23:50,070 that and that the deceased can make 441 00:23:55,010 --> 00:23:52,590 contact with somebody who is receptive 442 00:23:57,980 --> 00:23:55,020 enough to have the contact in their 443 00:24:00,200 --> 00:23:57,990 dreams so then the question comes up why 444 00:24:02,930 --> 00:24:00,210 didn't they come to the assistance 445 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:02,940 chaplain in his dreams because he was 446 00:24:09,380 --> 00:24:06,210 Native American he knew shamans this 447 00:24:13,070 --> 00:24:09,390 type of experience was common to him and 448 00:24:16,460 --> 00:24:13,080 his family well the deceased servicemen 449 00:24:18,350 --> 00:24:16,470 said he simply was not receptive that's 450 00:24:20,870 --> 00:24:18,360 what they had to go through him he 451 00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:20,880 didn't remember his dreams they couldn't 452 00:24:24,770 --> 00:24:23,310 get through to him on a dream level but 453 00:24:26,690 --> 00:24:24,780 they could get through to her because 454 00:24:29,930 --> 00:24:26,700 she have a whole history of unusual 455 00:24:32,540 --> 00:24:29,940 various Klaus yes so there you have the 456 00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:32,550 story and it's a fascinating one it 457 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:33,760 certainly is 458 00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:37,770 and it does bring up that one of our 459 00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:42,880 listeners named Yvette has written me a 460 00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:45,910 note and said if I might ask you and I 461 00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:48,130 wasn't sure I was going to ask you but 462 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:52,000 she wrote me about a dream that she had 463 00:24:59,220 --> 00:24:56,170 about a deceased former boyfriend lover 464 00:25:02,430 --> 00:24:59,230 whatever you want to call him and he had 465 00:25:05,970 --> 00:25:02,440 passed away some years ago and she had a 466 00:25:08,670 --> 00:25:05,980 very um it wasn't a disturbing dream 467 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:08,680 while she was having it she told me but 468 00:25:14,490 --> 00:25:10,930 rather after she woke up she became 469 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:14,500 disturbed it was a dream where she said 470 00:25:20,490 --> 00:25:17,290 she was visiting different apartment 471 00:25:23,730 --> 00:25:20,500 houses she was supposed to meet him and 472 00:25:26,820 --> 00:25:23,740 and in looking back on it she says the 473 00:25:29,850 --> 00:25:26,830 dream was very gray in the finality of 474 00:25:33,150 --> 00:25:29,860 the dream she did hear his voice calling 475 00:25:35,820 --> 00:25:33,160 to her and offering to give her some 476 00:25:38,850 --> 00:25:35,830 food of some sort and that he would be 477 00:25:43,740 --> 00:25:38,860 there in a moment but during the dream 478 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:43,750 she saw a disabled persons and the the 479 00:25:49,710 --> 00:25:46,210 dream was very gray while she ordinarily 480 00:25:53,940 --> 00:25:49,720 dreamt in color and she was saying that 481 00:25:57,660 --> 00:25:53,950 this man a middle-aged man was actually 482 00:25:59,640 --> 00:25:57,670 in some form of purgatory or had failed 483 00:26:04,710 --> 00:25:59,650 to go to the light or however you want 484 00:26:07,410 --> 00:26:04,720 to frame that in in a particular belief 485 00:26:11,540 --> 00:26:07,420 system but she was afraid that he was 486 00:26:14,010 --> 00:26:11,550 not totally at peace and so she asked me 487 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:14,020 because we had announced your being on 488 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:16,450 ahead of time if you would have anything 489 00:26:19,590 --> 00:26:18,010 to say about that and I didn't know 490 00:26:21,780 --> 00:26:19,600 whether I was going to be able to bring 491 00:26:24,060 --> 00:26:21,790 it up or not well you can certainly 492 00:26:25,890 --> 00:26:24,070 bring it up and remember i am not an 493 00:26:29,220 --> 00:26:25,900 expert and i don't think anybody's an 494 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:29,230 expert on life after death but i can 495 00:26:35,010 --> 00:26:32,170 make a couple of comments first of all 496 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:35,020 the fact that was in grey might simply 497 00:26:40,380 --> 00:26:37,810 have been a matter of alerting sure that 498 00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:40,390 this was an unusual dream and she should 499 00:26:45,540 --> 00:26:42,310 pay attention to it because her dreams 500 00:26:47,340 --> 00:26:45,550 are usually in color so the gray might 501 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:47,350 not indicate mood so much 502 00:26:53,210 --> 00:26:51,130 as being an alert system for her now the 503 00:26:56,159 --> 00:26:53,220 fact that he was not totally at peace 504 00:26:58,590 --> 00:26:56,169 well again from what I have read and 505 00:27:00,240 --> 00:26:58,600 from what I've experienced in terms of 506 00:27:03,810 --> 00:27:00,250 talking with folks who have near-death 507 00:27:06,029 --> 00:27:03,820 experiences there's a transition and the 508 00:27:09,690 --> 00:27:06,039 transition is not always a smooth one 509 00:27:12,870 --> 00:27:09,700 this transition has bumpy ones and this 510 00:27:15,330 --> 00:27:12,880 is why the Native American shamans with 511 00:27:18,150 --> 00:27:15,340 whom I've worked spend a great deal of 512 00:27:21,419 --> 00:27:18,160 time helping the deceased through these 513 00:27:25,620 --> 00:27:21,429 bumpy spots and making their passage as 514 00:27:28,409 --> 00:27:25,630 pleasant as possible so I think that the 515 00:27:30,330 --> 00:27:28,419 fact that she had the dream might prompt 516 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:30,340 her to do some crane might do some 517 00:27:36,510 --> 00:27:33,730 meditation might call upon her spirit 518 00:27:39,210 --> 00:27:36,520 rides as she has any to help make his 519 00:27:42,750 --> 00:27:39,220 transition much more pleasant than it 520 00:27:46,289 --> 00:27:42,760 was in the dream well that's very good 521 00:27:49,230 --> 00:27:46,299 advice in indeed dr. Stan and I have to 522 00:27:52,770 --> 00:27:49,240 emphasize if I'm happy there by opinion 523 00:27:55,980 --> 00:27:52,780 on this but like I say we know so little 524 00:27:58,340 --> 00:27:55,990 about this at least a riot Kingdom you 525 00:28:00,690 --> 00:27:58,350 know so little about it that I give my 526 00:28:03,180 --> 00:28:00,700 suggestions and people simply have to 527 00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:03,190 take that for what it's worth one of the 528 00:28:06,690 --> 00:28:04,960 most interesting things about their 529 00:28:10,020 --> 00:28:06,700 death experiences and also the 530 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:10,030 experiences of the young woman I work 531 00:28:18,210 --> 00:28:14,650 with is that the reports about after 532 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:18,220 death don't really conform with what you 533 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:21,010 read about or hear about from the major 534 00:28:27,870 --> 00:28:23,770 religions especially in the Western 535 00:28:31,230 --> 00:28:27,880 religions you don't have shall we say 536 00:28:34,890 --> 00:28:31,240 dogmatic or doctrinaire accounts it 537 00:28:36,690 --> 00:28:34,900 really support the religious dogmas that 538 00:28:39,710 --> 00:28:36,700 they've been coming up with her hundreds 539 00:28:43,049 --> 00:28:39,720 of years life is much more complicated 540 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:43,059 than what a lot of mainstream religions 541 00:28:48,899 --> 00:28:45,850 would like to think is simple and cut 542 00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:48,909 and dried so this is why I've urge 543 00:28:54,980 --> 00:28:52,480 people the yes if you are on religious 544 00:28:58,890 --> 00:28:54,990 person if you go to church or temple or 545 00:29:00,960 --> 00:28:58,900 synagogue or whatever of course if this 546 00:29:06,149 --> 00:29:00,970 gives you some 547 00:29:08,700 --> 00:29:06,159 ahead and do it but don't think you have 548 00:29:11,669 --> 00:29:08,710 to believe everything that you hear well 549 00:29:15,649 --> 00:29:11,679 I would agree with that and i would say 550 00:29:19,490 --> 00:29:15,659 further that in studying on near-death 551 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:19,500 experiences a one can find a lot of 552 00:29:26,460 --> 00:29:23,850 interest and perhaps a contemporaneous 553 00:29:28,289 --> 00:29:26,470 comfort in that i'm not saying that 554 00:29:30,930 --> 00:29:28,299 religions don't comfort i think they 555 00:29:34,649 --> 00:29:30,940 probably do comfort some people but the 556 00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:34,659 fact that you are reading about someone 557 00:29:41,070 --> 00:29:38,110 who is contemporaneous to oneself who's 558 00:29:43,950 --> 00:29:41,080 had a near-death experience or a child 559 00:29:47,610 --> 00:29:43,960 that comes back with a a tale of 560 00:29:50,039 --> 00:29:47,620 reincarnation which is provable by some 561 00:29:55,770 --> 00:29:50,049 facts that they're reporting about the 562 00:29:59,399 --> 00:29:55,780 the a purported previous life does to me 563 00:30:01,560 --> 00:29:59,409 give a lot more comfort than something 564 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:01,570 that I have to believe that may have 565 00:30:08,100 --> 00:30:03,570 been transmitted translated and 566 00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:08,110 mistranslated hundreds of times I true 567 00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:11,289 so true and I had a couple of comments 568 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:13,360 and what you just said the Miss 569 00:30:19,710 --> 00:30:16,210 translations of the Bible are numerous 570 00:30:22,980 --> 00:30:19,720 and one of them both is very serious was 571 00:30:27,060 --> 00:30:22,990 when st. Jerome translated the Bible 572 00:30:31,140 --> 00:30:27,070 into vulgate Latin and he mistranslated 573 00:30:32,850 --> 00:30:31,150 a word will in the Old Testament when 574 00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:32,860 the prophets are talking about the 575 00:30:37,890 --> 00:30:35,200 people we should stay away from and we 576 00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:37,900 should stay away from sorcerers and 577 00:30:44,250 --> 00:30:40,510 witches etc but they said stay away from 578 00:30:46,370 --> 00:30:44,260 people who work with dreams oh my that 579 00:30:48,779 --> 00:30:46,380 was a mistranslation and that 580 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:48,789 mistranslation set the study of dreams 581 00:30:54,029 --> 00:30:52,450 back a thousand years because people 582 00:30:56,039 --> 00:30:54,039 like scholars and the Middle Ages 583 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:56,049 refused to get involved with dream 584 00:31:00,570 --> 00:30:57,610 because they thought that was on the 585 00:31:03,630 --> 00:31:00,580 work of the devil now there are some 586 00:31:05,990 --> 00:31:03,640 minor trap mistranslations if not are 587 00:31:09,930 --> 00:31:06,000 not so serious in the New Testament 588 00:31:14,790 --> 00:31:09,940 there is a passage about Jesus and when 589 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:14,800 he came into Jerusalem on the back 590 00:31:20,430 --> 00:31:17,170 first on what to do is called palm Sundy 591 00:31:23,340 --> 00:31:20,440 and for emphasis the author says yes and 592 00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:23,350 the fall of the son of a horse and they 593 00:31:28,050 --> 00:31:25,510 used other words but that was exists of 594 00:31:31,170 --> 00:31:28,060 it there was their way to emphasize it 595 00:31:34,110 --> 00:31:31,180 so one of the artists do they had Jesus 596 00:31:37,230 --> 00:31:34,120 come in on the horse trailing a second 597 00:31:39,540 --> 00:31:37,240 horse well now is to conform to a 598 00:31:43,620 --> 00:31:39,550 mistranslation of a misunderstanding of 599 00:31:46,380 --> 00:31:43,630 the scripture am I yes so a lot of 600 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:46,390 people think that because these sacred 601 00:31:51,330 --> 00:31:48,730 books come directly from God they must 602 00:31:53,250 --> 00:31:51,340 be accurate well maybe they do come from 603 00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:53,260 a divine source but they have to come 604 00:31:59,010 --> 00:31:55,840 through human sounds and human channels 605 00:32:01,020 --> 00:31:59,020 are not always dependable especially 606 00:32:05,460 --> 00:32:01,030 when you go from one language to the 607 00:32:08,340 --> 00:32:05,470 next well I I would certainly agree with 608 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:08,350 that and what gives that more credence 609 00:32:13,770 --> 00:32:10,690 certainly than just you and or i 610 00:32:16,620 --> 00:32:13,780 speaking is that the fact that there are 611 00:32:18,870 --> 00:32:16,630 so many different denominations of any 612 00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:18,880 given religion I mean I suppose I know 613 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:21,120 more about Christianity than I do about 614 00:32:26,550 --> 00:32:24,970 shintoism for instance but there are so 615 00:32:28,740 --> 00:32:26,560 many different denominations of 616 00:32:31,290 --> 00:32:28,750 Christianity that argue with one another 617 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:31,300 and all think they've got the true you 618 00:32:37,860 --> 00:32:34,690 know the true book and write as well as 619 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:37,870 Judaism and Islam as well varieties of 620 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:40,930 Christianity there are 77 varieties of 621 00:32:47,490 --> 00:32:44,290 New Zealand and there are three major 622 00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:47,500 Jewish denominations and then you go to 623 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:49,600 Eastern religions good heavens think of 624 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:51,970 the dozens of varieties of Buddhism for 625 00:32:57,150 --> 00:32:55,210 example yes and so anybody that claims 626 00:32:58,740 --> 00:32:57,160 that they know the truth you have to say 627 00:33:00,300 --> 00:32:58,750 which Truman because there are so many 628 00:33:02,490 --> 00:33:00,310 hundreds of them that are out on the 629 00:33:05,970 --> 00:33:02,500 marketplace but I didn't want to comment 630 00:33:09,090 --> 00:33:05,980 about the past life issue because there 631 00:33:11,130 --> 00:33:09,100 has been some very scholarly research 632 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:11,140 done at the University of Virginia and 633 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:14,050 the most recent turn that it's taken is 634 00:33:19,140 --> 00:33:16,410 about children who remember past lives 635 00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:19,150 even from the united states where past 636 00:33:23,930 --> 00:33:21,310 lives are discounted not only by 637 00:33:28,110 --> 00:33:23,940 mainstream science but by the major 638 00:33:28,499 --> 00:33:28,120 Western religions and the truth will 639 00:33:30,959 --> 00:33:28,509 have 640 00:33:33,930 --> 00:33:30,969 coming up with very very specific names 641 00:33:38,549 --> 00:33:33,940 and places in many cases these can be 642 00:33:41,069 --> 00:33:38,559 tracked down and verified and so if I 643 00:33:43,709 --> 00:33:41,079 would suggest that your readers consider 644 00:33:45,899 --> 00:33:43,719 getting or going to the library and 645 00:33:49,459 --> 00:33:45,909 reading a book of mine called the 646 00:33:53,099 --> 00:33:49,469 varieties of anomalous experience and 647 00:33:57,269 --> 00:33:53,109 this book was edited by XO car Dania 648 00:34:00,269 --> 00:33:57,279 Stephen rhythm myself 2000 is the 649 00:34:03,180 --> 00:34:00,279 original edition it is the second 650 00:34:05,249 --> 00:34:03,190 edition only goes back to 2014 it's a 651 00:34:07,589 --> 00:34:05,259 grand new addition we have a whole 652 00:34:10,769 --> 00:34:07,599 chapter on what science has told us 653 00:34:13,079 --> 00:34:10,779 about past-life reports now you wouldn't 654 00:34:14,999 --> 00:34:13,089 take this book seriously unless you knew 655 00:34:17,609 --> 00:34:15,009 that this was published by the American 656 00:34:20,460 --> 00:34:17,619 Psychological Association which is 657 00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:20,470 mainstream science yes American 658 00:34:26,849 --> 00:34:23,440 Psychological Association has very very 659 00:34:30,180 --> 00:34:26,859 strict standards for publication and so 660 00:34:32,069 --> 00:34:30,190 in that chat to represent you know 661 00:34:34,859 --> 00:34:32,079 different sides of the story we take a 662 00:34:36,930 --> 00:34:34,869 very skeptical point of view but we do 663 00:34:40,319 --> 00:34:36,940 present some evidence it's very very 664 00:34:44,009 --> 00:34:40,329 hard to easily discount also there are 665 00:34:48,539 --> 00:34:44,019 chapters about psychic healing their 666 00:34:50,309 --> 00:34:48,549 chapters about lucid dreaming a number 667 00:34:53,789 --> 00:34:50,319 of chapters that would be of interest to 668 00:34:56,039 --> 00:34:53,799 many of the earth Don solicitors like a 669 00:35:00,740 --> 00:34:56,049 great compilation there it sounds really 670 00:35:03,299 --> 00:35:00,750 excellent and um to sort of a change 671 00:35:06,839 --> 00:35:03,309 directions a little bit you have been 672 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:06,849 very closely involved with healing 673 00:35:11,700 --> 00:35:08,890 states of consciousness and and the 674 00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:11,710 you're the book that i have read most 675 00:35:19,019 --> 00:35:14,730 recently which is called healing states 676 00:35:23,460 --> 00:35:19,029 you got involved with that with in that 677 00:35:26,339 --> 00:35:23,470 book at least anyway dr. Alberto yo la 678 00:35:29,999 --> 00:35:26,349 viola I have a hard time sometimes with 679 00:35:32,759 --> 00:35:30,009 pronunciation of names but and in which 680 00:35:37,349 --> 00:35:32,769 you and he had taken two trips together 681 00:35:41,789 --> 00:35:37,359 and separately to South America well dr. 682 00:35:42,329 --> 00:35:41,799 the old o is actually worth a half a 683 00:35:44,279 --> 00:35:42,339 dozen 684 00:35:46,589 --> 00:35:44,289 signed his own since the book that you 685 00:35:49,890 --> 00:35:46,599 mentioned was published he's really a 686 00:35:53,219 --> 00:35:49,900 masterful storyteller and he has written 687 00:35:55,469 --> 00:35:53,229 a recent book about healing experiences 688 00:35:58,849 --> 00:35:55,479 including a healing experience it saved 689 00:36:04,140 --> 00:35:58,859 his life when he was in South America 690 00:36:06,569 --> 00:36:04,150 had to visit shamans and because he's a 691 00:36:09,390 --> 00:36:06,579 medical anthropologist his work is very 692 00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:09,400 closely documented and it's put into the 693 00:36:14,489 --> 00:36:12,609 right anthropological context and as you 694 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:14,499 say the book healing states which you 695 00:36:20,579 --> 00:36:17,410 just read is a book that talks about our 696 00:36:24,509 --> 00:36:20,589 joint trips to Brazil but also his trip 697 00:36:26,670 --> 00:36:24,519 to Peru and my trips to visit Rolling 698 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:26,680 Thunder of other Native American healers 699 00:36:32,819 --> 00:36:29,650 and I think that your listeners would 700 00:36:35,849 --> 00:36:32,829 find it an extremely interesting story 701 00:36:38,130 --> 00:36:35,859 also I've recently written a book called 702 00:36:41,089 --> 00:36:38,140 the voice of Rolling Thunder with Sydney 703 00:36:43,559 --> 00:36:41,099 Morning Star Jones rulings thunders 704 00:36:46,410 --> 00:36:43,569 grandson and there are a lot of 705 00:36:50,759 --> 00:36:46,420 intriguing stories in that book about 706 00:36:52,940 --> 00:36:50,769 ruling Thunder and one of the stories 707 00:36:57,839 --> 00:36:52,950 i'll be happy to share with you and your 708 00:37:00,900 --> 00:36:57,849 listeners was the story about how a 709 00:37:03,150 --> 00:37:00,910 young photographer who had the believing 710 00:37:05,099 --> 00:37:03,160 couriers diagnosed with a rare blood 711 00:37:08,099 --> 00:37:05,109 disease and had only three months to 712 00:37:10,709 --> 00:37:08,109 live and so a desperation he went to see 713 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:10,719 Rolling Thunder who allowed him to camp 714 00:37:16,559 --> 00:37:13,690 out in Nevada on his property and 715 00:37:22,410 --> 00:37:16,569 Rolling Thunder good cleansing sweat 716 00:37:24,660 --> 00:37:22,420 lodge herbal teas chanting prayers to 717 00:37:26,489 --> 00:37:24,670 the great spirits at the other three 718 00:37:31,829 --> 00:37:26,499 months the photographer was still alive 719 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:31,839 great and at the end of six months he 720 00:37:36,959 --> 00:37:33,729 felt so well he thought he could get 721 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:36,969 back to her but Rolling Thunder had not 722 00:37:41,519 --> 00:37:39,130 allowed him to take a photograph Rolling 723 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:41,529 Thunder was very very averse to being 724 00:37:48,269 --> 00:37:43,930 photographed because he likes to keep a 725 00:37:52,799 --> 00:37:48,279 low profile and on one of the last days 726 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:52,809 of the visit a friend came to join the 727 00:37:58,079 --> 00:37:56,170 photographer whose name is Kerry and 728 00:38:01,349 --> 00:37:58,089 his friend brought to carry a little 729 00:38:05,789 --> 00:38:01,359 baby all who had fallen a little baby 730 00:38:07,710 --> 00:38:05,799 eagle who had fallen from a nest and he 731 00:38:10,049 --> 00:38:07,720 said we've got to take this baby eagle 732 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:10,059 the Rolling Thunder I think that baby 733 00:38:14,970 --> 00:38:12,970 Eagles wing is damaged and rolling 734 00:38:18,359 --> 00:38:14,980 federal know what to do because he has a 735 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:18,369 special affinity to eagles and so they 736 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:20,410 took the little baby eagle to Rolling 737 00:38:25,260 --> 00:38:22,930 Thunder yakking and scruffy and 738 00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:25,270 screaming as soon as Rolling Thunder 739 00:38:30,420 --> 00:38:28,000 touched the eagle at calm down and 740 00:38:32,789 --> 00:38:30,430 rolling thunder held the eagle in his 741 00:38:35,130 --> 00:38:32,799 hands and then he turned a carrion said 742 00:38:37,829 --> 00:38:35,140 you want a picture of me now you can 743 00:38:40,079 --> 00:38:37,839 take the picture also during took the 744 00:38:42,270 --> 00:38:40,089 picture and immediately as he took the 745 00:38:45,780 --> 00:38:42,280 picture of the eagle flew back to its 746 00:38:47,490 --> 00:38:45,790 nest mazak the picture on the cover of 747 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:47,500 the book bro the Thunder holding the 748 00:38:54,170 --> 00:38:50,530 eagle so can you tell us how you became 749 00:38:57,089 --> 00:38:54,180 acquainted with Rolling Thunder well I 750 00:38:59,130 --> 00:38:57,099 was very fortunate to have known and 751 00:39:02,190 --> 00:38:59,140 worked with Rolling Thunder for over 20 752 00:39:06,390 --> 00:39:02,200 years before his death at an advanced 753 00:39:08,730 --> 00:39:06,400 age and he had a very intense life and 754 00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:08,740 the very controversial life because he 755 00:39:16,559 --> 00:39:11,920 was a militant in firms of Native 756 00:39:19,349 --> 00:39:16,569 American Rights and so he could make a 757 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:19,359 lot of people angry and he was such a 758 00:39:23,819 --> 00:39:21,490 militant that he was actually the target 759 00:39:25,710 --> 00:39:23,829 of an assassination attempt they missed 760 00:39:29,130 --> 00:39:25,720 him but they left the bullet hole in the 761 00:39:31,380 --> 00:39:29,140 wall of his house raid cried and showing 762 00:39:33,990 --> 00:39:31,390 me and the other people the bullet hole 763 00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:34,000 he had just leaned out to tie his shoe 764 00:39:39,660 --> 00:39:36,880 lace when the rifle was firing and all 765 00:39:41,190 --> 00:39:39,670 if it was the wall thank heavens so 766 00:39:43,950 --> 00:39:41,200 Rolling Thunder thought the Great Spirit 767 00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:43,960 must had one within that day I think he 768 00:39:48,839 --> 00:39:46,089 was but while I met Rolling Thunder 769 00:39:56,970 --> 00:39:48,849 through the Grateful Dead of our people 770 00:40:00,329 --> 00:39:56,980 I went to a party for a la rocca who was 771 00:40:03,180 --> 00:40:00,339 a famous musician from India and other 772 00:40:05,609 --> 00:40:03,190 author play tabla for Ravi Shankar the 773 00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:05,619 most famous musician from India haha 774 00:40:12,420 --> 00:40:09,760 time who brought the raga stin 775 00:40:15,750 --> 00:40:12,430 nine states and to England or they were 776 00:40:18,060 --> 00:40:15,760 championed by the Beatles and one of our 777 00:40:20,070 --> 00:40:18,070 acha students was Mickey Hart he was 778 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:20,080 teaching the heart how to play the tabla 779 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:22,890 so Mickey Hart was at the party and 780 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:26,050 Mickey Hart had some questions for me 781 00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:28,930 about hypnosis because this is an 782 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:32,560 interest to him now that we have a nice 783 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:35,650 conversation and then completely out of 784 00:40:41,250 --> 00:40:38,290 the balloon Mickey asked me if I liked 785 00:40:43,050 --> 00:40:41,260 rock music I said oh yes I want to hear 786 00:40:45,630 --> 00:40:43,060 the Grateful Dead just two nights ago 787 00:40:47,940 --> 00:40:45,640 and then Vicky being from earlier that 788 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:47,950 there you heard me play I play drums of 789 00:40:53,250 --> 00:40:51,370 the Grateful Dead cannot ask that 790 00:40:55,950 --> 00:40:53,260 question I would never have met Rolling 791 00:40:59,040 --> 00:40:55,960 Thunder because then Mickey and I became 792 00:41:00,690 --> 00:40:59,050 close friends and he kept saying I want 793 00:41:04,490 --> 00:41:00,700 you to meet this Native American 794 00:41:07,170 --> 00:41:04,500 medicine man who I know one and so on 795 00:41:10,110 --> 00:41:07,180 one occasion when I was staying with 796 00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:10,120 Nicki in his ranch in California he got 797 00:41:14,580 --> 00:41:12,160 a private plane to pick up Rolling 798 00:41:16,500 --> 00:41:14,590 Thunder and bring him to the ranch so 799 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:16,510 that we could meet so that's how I met 800 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:20,530 Rolling Thunder that's a great story 801 00:41:25,140 --> 00:41:23,050 that is an amazing isn't it isn't it 802 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:25,150 Kate that's that's and it just goes to 803 00:41:30,210 --> 00:41:27,490 show you how synchronicity works mm-hmm 804 00:41:32,730 --> 00:41:30,220 absolutely and how music it's tied into 805 00:41:35,250 --> 00:41:32,740 a lot of psychic phenomena yes yes 806 00:41:37,740 --> 00:41:35,260 indeed music is tied to psychic 807 00:41:40,590 --> 00:41:37,750 phenomena I think this death of this day 808 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:40,600 we remember the main remaining members 809 00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:42,610 of their Grateful Dead are touring they 810 00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:44,640 call themselves dead and the company 811 00:41:48,810 --> 00:41:47,110 your listeners might like to take him 812 00:41:51,900 --> 00:41:48,820 one of their concerts when they come to 813 00:41:54,650 --> 00:41:51,910 your area oh absolutely I know a lot of 814 00:41:57,720 --> 00:41:54,660 listeners who would love to do just that 815 00:42:00,390 --> 00:41:57,730 did you have a question oh not really I 816 00:42:04,070 --> 00:42:00,400 mean I was just wondering what the state 817 00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:04,080 of parapsychology is today I mean it's a 818 00:42:09,090 --> 00:42:06,250 listening to you I think it's so funny 819 00:42:11,310 --> 00:42:09,100 that you always have to prove double 820 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:11,320 prove triple prove and so on whereas you 821 00:42:16,650 --> 00:42:13,890 know someone who's let's say 822 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:16,660 investigating a various amino acid nope 823 00:42:21,690 --> 00:42:18,250 these are the results and everyone goes 824 00:42:22,940 --> 00:42:21,700 oh ok but something like parapsychology 825 00:42:27,470 --> 00:42:22,950 it just takes so 826 00:42:29,540 --> 00:42:27,480 proof I mean I I understand why but it 827 00:42:32,300 --> 00:42:29,550 always has annoyed me but what do you 828 00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:32,310 think the state of it the field is today 829 00:42:38,359 --> 00:42:35,040 do you can ask a number of people this 830 00:42:41,930 --> 00:42:38,369 question I Paris I called you still hang 831 00:42:44,329 --> 00:42:41,940 on a change here I go to Paris 832 00:42:48,650 --> 00:42:44,339 Psychological Association conventions 833 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:48,660 year after year and the numbers really 834 00:42:54,859 --> 00:42:51,930 don't change much between 100 and 300 835 00:42:58,069 --> 00:42:54,869 people at the conventions 300 the most 836 00:43:02,109 --> 00:42:58,079 very very small numbers when you think 837 00:43:04,310 --> 00:43:02,119 of the importance of the field and the 838 00:43:06,470 --> 00:43:04,320 laboratories are underfunded there's 839 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:06,480 only half a dozen of them operating in 840 00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:09,810 the world and the journals have very 841 00:43:14,750 --> 00:43:12,240 very high standards and so the articles 842 00:43:19,579 --> 00:43:14,760 that are published in the drills usually 843 00:43:21,220 --> 00:43:19,589 are pretty rigorously designed and one 844 00:43:24,829 --> 00:43:21,230 of the main critic Sakura 845 00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:24,839 psychologically oriented studies as ray 846 00:43:29,660 --> 00:43:26,880 hyman who is also a friend of mine 847 00:43:31,460 --> 00:43:29,670 University of Oregon and he says most of 848 00:43:34,210 --> 00:43:31,470 the skeptics don't realize how 849 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:34,220 well-designed most parapsychological 850 00:43:41,270 --> 00:43:37,770 experiments are and yes they are well 851 00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:41,280 designed that you see her psychology is 852 00:43:46,930 --> 00:43:44,089 not going to sweep the world by storm 853 00:43:50,089 --> 00:43:46,940 unless it can do one of three things 854 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:50,099 unless it has a practical application 855 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:53,010 that is dependable psychic healing is 856 00:43:58,940 --> 00:43:55,290 not dependable predicting the stock 857 00:44:02,290 --> 00:43:58,950 market is not dependable helping out in 858 00:44:05,359 --> 00:44:02,300 romance is certainly not dependable 859 00:44:08,270 --> 00:44:05,369 secondly a repeatable experiment a lot 860 00:44:11,780 --> 00:44:08,280 of Sciences have experiments that can be 861 00:44:13,690 --> 00:44:11,790 done in redone by other laboratories all 862 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:13,700 over the world that's the problem 863 00:44:20,210 --> 00:44:17,130 psychology has some fairly repeatable 864 00:44:24,109 --> 00:44:20,220 experiments but nothing that is easily 865 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:24,119 repeatable and then third is a 866 00:44:31,490 --> 00:44:27,810 theoretical explanation that will fit in 867 00:44:33,349 --> 00:44:31,500 with mainstream Western science now this 868 00:44:36,829 --> 00:44:33,359 is a tough one because there's a lot of 869 00:44:39,319 --> 00:44:36,839 theories of parapsychology and 870 00:44:41,870 --> 00:44:39,329 some very good ones they recommend that 871 00:44:45,789 --> 00:44:41,880 your listeners look at the door look at 872 00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:45,799 the book first sight by James Carpenter 873 00:44:52,459 --> 00:44:49,680 that's a psychological theory about how 874 00:44:55,099 --> 00:44:52,469 psychic abilities were part of human 875 00:44:57,459 --> 00:44:55,109 evolution and how they still play an 876 00:45:00,920 --> 00:44:57,469 important role whether we know it or not 877 00:45:03,620 --> 00:45:00,930 okay but that does not fit in with 878 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:03,630 mainstream Western science which as you 879 00:45:10,819 --> 00:45:06,690 said before is very mechanistic so I 880 00:45:12,859 --> 00:45:10,829 think that until parasite college can 881 00:45:15,380 --> 00:45:12,869 break not all three of those but just 882 00:45:17,690 --> 00:45:15,390 one of those three barriers it's still 883 00:45:19,729 --> 00:45:17,700 going to be on the fringe and we just 884 00:45:24,190 --> 00:45:19,739 have to keep doing with research we can 885 00:45:27,249 --> 00:45:24,200 do and we can take seriously the 886 00:45:29,839 --> 00:45:27,259 worthwhile criticisms from outsiders but 887 00:45:32,539 --> 00:45:29,849 we just have to dismiss the irrational 888 00:45:35,690 --> 00:45:32,549 criticisms well that's that's a good 889 00:45:37,729 --> 00:45:35,700 approach and I want it to make two 890 00:45:40,910 --> 00:45:37,739 comments on what you just said the first 891 00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:40,920 one is I in after I make the second one 892 00:45:47,900 --> 00:45:44,249 I wonder if you could comment on the X 893 00:45:49,940 --> 00:45:47,910 is it the experimenter affect the bias 894 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:49,950 of the experimenter makes a difference 895 00:45:57,140 --> 00:45:54,890 in how all sorts of scientific things 896 00:46:01,069 --> 00:45:57,150 experiments turn out that's my first 897 00:46:04,670 --> 00:46:01,079 comment and my second comment is did not 898 00:46:08,630 --> 00:46:04,680 some of the research at the physics lab 899 00:46:12,140 --> 00:46:08,640 the pair lab in Princeton do away with 900 00:46:17,209 --> 00:46:12,150 the non repeatability because although 901 00:46:19,789 --> 00:46:17,219 the effect was statistically small but 902 00:46:21,650 --> 00:46:19,799 very significant in in some of the 903 00:46:24,170 --> 00:46:21,660 experiments that they did those are my 904 00:46:26,209 --> 00:46:24,180 two comments on that well those are very 905 00:46:28,660 --> 00:46:26,219 big questions you're talking about the 906 00:46:32,839 --> 00:46:28,670 former para lab at the University of 907 00:46:35,059 --> 00:46:32,849 Princeton and they did excellent work 908 00:46:38,779 --> 00:46:35,069 for a couple of decades and then we'll 909 00:46:41,870 --> 00:46:38,789 leave with robert john and drownded um 910 00:46:43,759 --> 00:46:41,880 retired they just closed the lab much to 911 00:46:47,599 --> 00:46:43,769 the relief of the physics department of 912 00:46:49,370 --> 00:46:47,609 the engineering department by the way so 913 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:49,380 now they're writing books about what 914 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:50,370 they learned 915 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:52,410 and they did a lot of worthwhile work 916 00:46:57,470 --> 00:46:54,570 but as you say the effects were very 917 00:47:01,160 --> 00:46:57,480 very small but they did hundreds of 918 00:47:05,630 --> 00:47:01,170 thousands of runs and so the accumulated 919 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:05,640 data were overwhelmingly significant so 920 00:47:10,700 --> 00:47:07,650 what needs to be done as people of other 921 00:47:13,430 --> 00:47:10,710 laboratories to pick up and try to get 922 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:13,440 the same effects now one of the things 923 00:47:20,510 --> 00:47:18,570 they did at Princeton was the effect of 924 00:47:24,380 --> 00:47:20,520 what's called the global consciousness 925 00:47:28,810 --> 00:47:24,390 project and what one of the members of 926 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:28,820 the group Roger Nelson did was to have 927 00:47:35,350 --> 00:47:31,770 parapsychological devices all around the 928 00:47:38,300 --> 00:47:35,360 world called random effect right random 929 00:47:40,580 --> 00:47:38,310 number or rather effect generators re 930 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:40,590 cheese sometimes they use numbers 931 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:43,530 sometimes they use subatomic particles 932 00:47:48,620 --> 00:47:46,530 but these little devices will randomly 933 00:47:51,830 --> 00:47:48,630 flash on a red light or in green light 934 00:47:56,210 --> 00:47:51,840 just randomly however when there is some 935 00:47:59,950 --> 00:47:56,220 earth shaky event such as the death of 936 00:48:03,980 --> 00:47:59,960 Princess Diana there is a strange 937 00:48:08,030 --> 00:48:03,990 synchronization among these little 938 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:08,040 machines they all start to behave in the 939 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:11,130 same way and flash those red lights or 940 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:14,690 green lights on at the same time and 941 00:48:21,380 --> 00:48:18,170 again the effects are very very small 942 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:21,390 but you find this over and over again 943 00:48:28,010 --> 00:48:24,570 including the attacks on the world trade 944 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:28,020 power and the Pentagon where you not 945 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:30,210 only had a massive effect just 946 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:32,690 afterwards but you even have a little 947 00:48:38,110 --> 00:48:35,850 but statistically significant effect the 948 00:48:40,580 --> 00:48:38,120 day before this is going to take place 949 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:40,590 just as if they were reading the minds 950 00:48:46,820 --> 00:48:42,450 of the terrorists and knew that this was 951 00:48:48,230 --> 00:48:46,830 going to happen so nobody else has done 952 00:48:51,590 --> 00:48:48,240 this but this would be a wonderful 953 00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:51,600 experiment for some other team to try to 954 00:48:57,770 --> 00:48:55,170 repeat and especially because these 955 00:48:59,960 --> 00:48:57,780 little random event generators are so 956 00:49:03,040 --> 00:48:59,970 inexpensive and they just operate by 957 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:03,050 themselves and record it's a beta 958 00:49:07,849 --> 00:49:04,170 24-hour 959 00:49:11,839 --> 00:49:07,859 as a day well people in parapsychology 960 00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:11,849 think that this is a important finding 961 00:49:18,049 --> 00:49:14,730 but some of them say yes but it's all 962 00:49:21,950 --> 00:49:18,059 the experimenter effect Roger Nelson it 963 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:21,960 has seen expect there to be a bullet 964 00:49:27,799 --> 00:49:24,410 when there is an earth-shaking event and 965 00:49:31,010 --> 00:49:27,809 so this is what is being measured not 966 00:49:33,170 --> 00:49:31,020 the effect of the event itself whether 967 00:49:35,780 --> 00:49:33,180 it be a tragic event like the death of 968 00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:35,790 Princess Diana or happy events such as 969 00:49:41,030 --> 00:49:38,640 the World copper the Olympics right so 970 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:41,040 that's an example of experimenter effect 971 00:49:46,490 --> 00:49:44,010 one of many many the experimenter effect 972 00:49:50,089 --> 00:49:46,500 as you said happens in mainstream 973 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:50,099 psychology and even happens in 974 00:49:58,609 --> 00:49:52,890 mainstream physics where you have the 975 00:50:01,120 --> 00:49:58,619 uncanny phenomenon of waves and 976 00:50:04,609 --> 00:50:01,130 particles if you're looking for a wave 977 00:50:07,039 --> 00:50:04,619 you get beta that support waves if 978 00:50:09,289 --> 00:50:07,049 you're looking for particles from life 979 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:09,299 and other sources you get something that 980 00:50:14,630 --> 00:50:12,450 looks like a particle and so 981 00:50:17,420 --> 00:50:14,640 experimenter affect the person doing the 982 00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:17,430 experiment is something that's a part of 983 00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:19,890 all science it used to be thought that 984 00:50:25,299 --> 00:50:22,290 science is so neutral the experimenter 985 00:50:29,420 --> 00:50:25,309 was apart from the experiment was a 986 00:50:31,730 --> 00:50:29,430 unbiased observer annex designer no 987 00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:31,740 that's not true the experimenter in any 988 00:50:37,339 --> 00:50:34,650 type of science the research in any kind 989 00:50:39,859 --> 00:50:37,349 of science is a part of that experiment 990 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:39,869 and you've got to build that into the 991 00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:42,450 experiment and to the study and 992 00:50:47,569 --> 00:50:44,450 acknowledge that when you write it up 993 00:50:50,500 --> 00:50:47,579 well well that that is certainly 994 00:50:53,390 --> 00:50:50,510 something to take into consideration 995 00:50:55,720 --> 00:50:53,400 episode right down the line on 996 00:50:59,569 --> 00:50:55,730 anthropology the famous anthropologist 997 00:51:01,549 --> 00:50:59,579 Margaret Mead well to Samoa and she was 998 00:51:06,260 --> 00:51:01,559 asked a young women about their sex 999 00:51:09,170 --> 00:51:06,270 lives and she expected them to say that 1000 00:51:12,140 --> 00:51:09,180 they had a much more uninhibited sexual 1001 00:51:15,020 --> 00:51:12,150 life then Western girls back to the 1002 00:51:16,650 --> 00:51:15,030 1930s did and she wrote a famous book 1003 00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:16,660 coming of age of something 1004 00:51:21,420 --> 00:51:18,880 Samoa yeah the fatherland esta Gator 1005 00:51:25,230 --> 00:51:21,430 studied this and he did not find that 1006 00:51:27,630 --> 00:51:25,240 this is the truth at all and it's very 1007 00:51:30,150 --> 00:51:27,640 possible the barber at me famous though 1008 00:51:32,579 --> 00:51:30,160 she was the experimenter effective 1009 00:51:34,529 --> 00:51:32,589 affected her interviews and the 1010 00:51:36,089 --> 00:51:34,539 respondents these young rules simply 1011 00:51:40,319 --> 00:51:36,099 told her what they thought they wanted 1012 00:51:42,359 --> 00:51:40,329 her to hear I think she would have done 1013 00:51:44,579 --> 00:51:42,369 the different experiment she would have 1014 00:51:46,770 --> 00:51:44,589 done a little bit more controlled work 1015 00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:46,780 if she had done it today but no these 1016 00:51:52,770 --> 00:51:48,730 are the things you learn of science 1017 00:51:55,470 --> 00:51:52,780 progresses I I greatly admired Margaret 1018 00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:55,480 Mead myself as specially baffling was 1019 00:52:01,200 --> 00:51:59,200 her statement that she didn't didn't 1020 00:52:03,839 --> 00:52:01,210 understand depression because she was 1021 00:52:05,430 --> 00:52:03,849 never ever depressed she said something 1022 00:52:07,859 --> 00:52:05,440 to the effect that she had never been 1023 00:52:10,170 --> 00:52:07,869 depressed in her life oh she was a very 1024 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:10,180 happy joyous person I knew Margaret Mead 1025 00:52:13,940 --> 00:52:12,010 she was just marvelous and of course she 1026 00:52:16,890 --> 00:52:13,950 was very favorably inclined toward 1027 00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:16,900 parapsychology and she's the one that 1028 00:52:21,569 --> 00:52:18,880 argued before the American Association 1029 00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:21,579 for the Advancement of science saying 1030 00:52:26,309 --> 00:52:23,440 yes admit them to membership because 1031 00:52:28,049 --> 00:52:26,319 they follow all the scientific rules and 1032 00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:28,059 the council to vote in the 1033 00:52:35,539 --> 00:52:30,730 parapsychological Association as a 1034 00:52:39,059 --> 00:52:35,549 member and it remains in the triple-a s 1035 00:52:41,279 --> 00:52:39,069 camp today and Margaret Mead of course 1036 00:52:44,069 --> 00:52:41,289 is very viciously attacked by people 1037 00:52:46,859 --> 00:52:44,079 that didn't like her attack approach but 1038 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:46,869 she always used the term what's not 1039 00:52:51,299 --> 00:52:49,210 called extrasensory perception ESP 1040 00:52:53,730 --> 00:52:51,309 what's called extended sensory 1041 00:52:57,089 --> 00:52:53,740 perception because we don't know how 1042 00:53:00,180 --> 00:52:57,099 long and how far the census project 1043 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:00,190 themselves and she was thinking in terms 1044 00:53:06,029 --> 00:53:02,770 of what a lot of native americans call 1045 00:53:09,930 --> 00:53:06,039 the long body the human body is not n 1046 00:53:12,299 --> 00:53:09,940 were the skin ends my body extends into 1047 00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:12,309 the family of the clan into the whole 1048 00:53:17,490 --> 00:53:15,010 tribe and ultimately of a whole nature 1049 00:53:20,220 --> 00:53:17,500 and so Native Americans especially 1050 00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:20,230 before the European invasion neither the 1051 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:23,650 Maryland said no problems accepting tree 1052 00:53:30,150 --> 00:53:27,130 cognitive dreams for past life memories 1053 00:53:32,850 --> 00:53:30,160 because this was part of the long body 1054 00:53:37,230 --> 00:53:32,860 well that's that's it's very true and 1055 00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:37,240 and you're a former collaborator Alberto 1056 00:53:44,790 --> 00:53:39,730 vo doh I hope I've said that correctly 1057 00:53:47,250 --> 00:53:44,800 this time oh he he studied if I'm not if 1058 00:53:49,740 --> 00:53:47,260 I'm if I'm correct here places that are 1059 00:53:52,290 --> 00:53:49,750 still existent both in the South Seas in 1060 00:53:55,650 --> 00:53:52,300 South America where the indigenous 1061 00:53:59,700 --> 00:53:55,660 populations I you know meet together in 1062 00:54:02,070 --> 00:53:59,710 the morning for a dream work yes their 1063 00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:02,080 dreams I've only in South America this 1064 00:54:09,210 --> 00:54:04,570 is done in various parts of the world 1065 00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:09,220 including Southeast Asia where family or 1066 00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:11,770 even a group will gather in the morning 1067 00:54:17,310 --> 00:54:15,520 and we'll talk about the dreams and see 1068 00:54:20,130 --> 00:54:17,320 what benefits they can drive from the 1069 00:54:22,740 --> 00:54:20,140 dreams this is something that is 1070 00:54:25,470 --> 00:54:22,750 practiced in very very few American 1071 00:54:29,310 --> 00:54:25,480 families and certainly neither American 1072 00:54:31,650 --> 00:54:29,320 communities because America is a dream 1073 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:31,660 deprived society not really pay much 1074 00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:34,210 attention to dreams and this is why the 1075 00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:36,130 international association for the study 1076 00:54:41,310 --> 00:54:39,250 of dreams I ASD is such a wonderful 1077 00:54:43,830 --> 00:54:41,320 corrected because this is a group that 1078 00:54:45,630 --> 00:54:43,840 has regional conferences it has annual 1079 00:54:48,330 --> 00:54:45,640 conferences at different parts of the 1080 00:54:51,210 --> 00:54:48,340 world and gives people both lay people 1081 00:54:53,310 --> 00:54:51,220 of experts and scientists a chance to 1082 00:54:58,380 --> 00:54:53,320 talk about the most recent findings and 1083 00:55:01,350 --> 00:54:58,390 dreams and extraordinary dreams such as 1084 00:55:04,020 --> 00:55:01,360 psychic dreams are also are certainly 1085 00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:04,030 welcome at these meetings and again your 1086 00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:06,880 listeners can look up the ISDN website 1087 00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:09,520 and find out all about the activities of 1088 00:55:15,330 --> 00:55:12,610 this wonderful organization well dr. 1089 00:55:18,780 --> 00:55:15,340 Stanley krepner we have been so 1090 00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:18,790 fortunate to have you here on shattered 1091 00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:21,850 reality podcast today and the only 1092 00:55:29,610 --> 00:55:25,450 unfortunate thing is that our time for 1093 00:55:32,610 --> 00:55:29,620 today is just about up and we would like 1094 00:55:34,950 --> 00:55:32,620 to extend an invitation for you to come 1095 00:55:39,050 --> 00:55:34,960 back again in a couple of months and 1096 00:55:42,230 --> 00:55:39,060 give you a moment to mention again your 1097 00:55:43,420 --> 00:55:42,240 association this summer in August with 1098 00:55:45,130 --> 00:55:43,430 the 1099 00:55:47,230 --> 00:55:45,140 orban anatomy museum where are you going 1100 00:55:49,620 --> 00:55:47,240 to be giving another presentation or is 1101 00:55:52,690 --> 00:55:49,630 it at the actual brooklyn museum i'm a 1102 00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:52,700 morbid anatomy museum in brooklyn you're 1103 00:55:57,640 --> 00:55:54,530 absolutely right just look at my website 1104 00:56:02,530 --> 00:55:57,650 it's about August twelfth I remember the 1105 00:56:05,079 --> 00:56:02,540 date okay well I I really dr. Crippen er 1106 00:56:08,049 --> 00:56:05,089 I I don't have much experience in this 1107 00:56:10,390 --> 00:56:08,059 particular line purusha does so I'm 1108 00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:10,400 afraid I don't have many questions for 1109 00:56:14,380 --> 00:56:12,050 you but it's been a pleasure listening 1110 00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:14,390 to you and it's always great to learn 1111 00:56:19,390 --> 00:56:16,490 something new which I have so thank you 1112 00:56:24,010 --> 00:56:19,400 so much when your program has to keep on 1113 00:56:26,980 --> 00:56:24,020 shattering reality reality that we live 1114 00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:26,990 them are not the full picture and the 1115 00:56:33,790 --> 00:56:30,170 shatter the misconceptions and really 1116 00:56:37,030 --> 00:56:33,800 look at the underlying values and wisdom 1117 00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:37,040 that is all too often hidden from us 1118 00:56:42,069 --> 00:56:39,680 well thanks again and we invite you to 1119 00:56:45,849 --> 00:56:42,079 come back on and talk about hypnotism 1120 00:56:47,710 --> 00:56:45,859 and more about shamanism and just lots 1121 00:56:51,130 --> 00:56:47,720 of other subjects that you're an expert 1122 00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:51,140 on alright thanks again bye now thank 1123 00:56:57,460 --> 00:56:52,970 you so much thank you so much so that 1124 00:56:59,589 --> 00:56:57,470 was our number 36 okay of our podcast 1125 00:57:01,809 --> 00:56:59,599 okay and we're going to take a brief 1126 00:57:04,180 --> 00:57:01,819 interlude for the month of August right 1127 00:57:07,390 --> 00:57:04,190 hey that's true and we're going to come 1128 00:57:09,670 --> 00:57:07,400 back in September swimming great guests 1129 00:57:11,799 --> 00:57:09,680 we can't get any greater than dr. 1130 00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:11,809 Stanley crypt nur and Russell Targ 1131 00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:14,210 they're about they're both at the Y bar 1132 00:57:19,180 --> 00:57:17,210 I thought I bar to beat but we were not 1133 00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:19,190 expecting to beat that bar but we are 1134 00:57:25,299 --> 00:57:22,490 expecting to continue with really really 1135 00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:25,309 quality guests and at this point I would 1136 00:57:31,809 --> 00:57:29,690 like to say a word of appreciation not 1137 00:57:35,349 --> 00:57:31,819 only to our engineer bill which who we 1138 00:57:38,410 --> 00:57:35,359 always always appreciate but also to two 1139 00:57:41,140 --> 00:57:38,420 of our listeners Oh have we have 1140 00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:41,150 listeners all right Linda LeBlanc who 1141 00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:43,730 has been a long term supporter of 1142 00:57:52,780 --> 00:57:48,290 shattered reality podcast and also vilem 1143 00:57:57,370 --> 00:57:52,790 Vandenberg who is also another supporter 1144 00:58:00,790 --> 00:57:57,380 and SSE members Society for scientific 1145 00:58:04,450 --> 00:58:00,800 duration member and he is very 1146 00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:04,460 encouraging to our efforts and a big fan 1147 00:58:11,770 --> 00:58:07,490 of dr. Crippen ER and of Russell Targ as 1148 00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:11,780 is Linda LeBlanc so thank you and I it 1149 00:58:19,050 --> 00:58:16,130 don't forget Diane ouu please be up 1150 00:58:22,930 --> 00:58:19,060 Diane did so out there with blackboard 1151 00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:22,940 okay so that's another one of our big 1152 00:58:27,940 --> 00:58:25,970 fans and a supporter and a very lovely 1153 00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:27,950 lady I'd have to say having just met her 1154 00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:31,130 once oh yes she's a lovely person so I 1155 00:58:40,540 --> 00:58:35,570 hope you'll continue to listen in to us 1156 00:58:43,810 --> 00:58:40,550 please be aware that we value criticisms 1157 00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:43,820 and applauded and comments to summons 1158 00:58:50,650 --> 00:58:48,050 just comments about our podcast guests 1159 00:58:52,990 --> 00:58:50,660 and maybe want to give us hints as to 1160 00:58:56,250 --> 00:58:53,000 guessed you'd like to hear from ya but 1161 00:58:58,840 --> 00:58:56,260 it really when Rosetta puts a lot of 1162 00:59:01,510 --> 00:58:58,850 time and effort she's another one of our 1163 00:59:04,300 --> 00:59:01,520 famous listeners and we have heard from 1164 00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:04,310 her on many occasions but like her I 1165 00:59:09,430 --> 00:59:06,530 would love to hear from you too because 1166 00:59:11,530 --> 00:59:09,440 you know the more we hear from you the 1167 00:59:13,770 --> 00:59:11,540 better quality we're going to get so 1168 00:59:18,850 --> 00:59:13,780 thank you to just another fan out there 1169 00:59:21,790 --> 00:59:18,860 okay so uh in terms of shouted reality 1170 00:59:25,180 --> 00:59:21,800 podcast enjoy your summer yes and